Jealousy

An interesting comment by ShysterJon on an ASPD thread about the possibility of escorts/client “relationships” (meaning something much more permanent than a routine P4P relationship).  He is in a relationship with a former escort and admits that he doesn’t at all want to share her with other guys.  Some guys don’t mind; some do.  Their feelings are what they are; neither is “wrong.” 

SJ specifically mentioned

Another source of tension at times are hobbyists sending Callie PMs, although she made it clear months ago she’s retired from tricking. This ticks me off a little. To me, it must be a violation of some Man Law. Building lasting relationships is hard enough without some John on the prowl for strange pestering she that rules me.

It occurred to me after reading that . . . in some cases, the lady doesn’t retire but her SO may be jealous of most of her clients.  Or maybe he’s jealous of just a few.  Or maybe she retires, but a former client who considers her a friend drops her a note just to chat occasionally, and her SO is jealous of that, even though it’s not sexual in nature.

I would understand and empathize the SO’s perspective, and if I knew I would do my best to avoid causing problems for their relationship.  On the other hand, I suspect that most of us wouldn’t know.  For one thing, often the lady and gentleman do not “publicize” their relationship, so we don’t even know there’s anything on which we might be intruding.  In addition, if she’s still working, I suspect it doesn’t even occur to most of her clients that she might have an SO who is jealous of us.  In most P4P encounters, the client is significantly older than the escort.  Many clients are overweight and/or . . . shall we say, somewhat short of the ideal in terms of physical appearance.  If the lady has an SO, she obviously chose to be with him rather than her clients. 

I suspect that most guys would be surprised and shocked if an escort told him “My SO is jealous of you.”  Hey, there’s no need to be jealous of lil’ old me!  Even if we think that some of her clients induce jealousy, we wouldn’t expect to be one — the odds are always against it.  (It actually happened once to me, and I certainly was dumbfounded.)  Clients are just psychologically conditioned not to expect jealousy directed toward us in the P4P environment.

Pros and cons of P4P — part two

OK, a few minutes to catch up, so . . . the second thing I found interesting and/or confusing about that thread:  Several guys posted, as a “con” to P4P, that it can become a substitute for “real” relationships.  Here are the comments in question:

• those that HAVE replaced the civilian hunt are robbing themselves of invaluable social experience and learning
• This is just a substitute for a “normal” relationship
• Using the hobby as a substitute for “real” relationships with women

Pros and cons of P4P — part one

An interesting thread on ASPD, asking people about the pros and cons of P4P.  It was interesting to see the responses by some of the folks I “know.”  Some warming, some sad.  One in particular that I found poignant, knowing a little bit about what was behind it. 

But there were a couple of thoughts from the thread that started me thinking.  I’ll save one for a later entry, after I’ve had more time to digest and mull over.  So, for this entry, I want to talk about the post by TnTAngie.  Particularly:

Boundaries and barriers

I ran across this interesting post over on ASPD.  A lot of food for thought.   I’m going to just reproduce it here, without commentary (at least for now).  Of course, readers (if any) are welcome to comment. 

It’s all about sex.

That’s what I used to think. I came into this world as a replacement for affairs. I love my wife. I love my children. I am not leaving them for anyone. When I had affairs, I was always very up front about that. Every single woman with whom I ever had an affair always said she understood and accepted that fact — at first. But, they always eventually ended up wanting more. And the affairs always eventually ended badly because of it. When I finally figured out that it wasn’t all about sex is when I finally figured out that this was inevitable. What I realized was that, as much or even more than the physical act of sex, I craved the excitement and heat of a new encounter, the passion that comes with mutual sexual discovery. Knowing that, it became clear that these women would always end up wanting more because of the emotional aspect of our relationship. The barrier that kept that aspect in check for me — my family — is not a barrier they shared. That was my entree into this world.

What I found in this world is a place where both parties have barriers in place that, if respected, make for a safe environment, both in the sense of safe from a danger to your outside life perspective and in the sense of emotional safety.

I had an ATF, now retired unfortunately, who I saw a few times a year when traveling to Houston or Austin. I don’t know if what I had with this lady or felt for this lady was love — but when I was with her it sure felt like it. At the very least, I had a strong emotional attachment to this woman and I felt as if that attachment was reciprocated.

One night during a dinner out, she and I discussed this. I asked her about this incredible emotional connection she and I seemed to have — was it real or was she so talented that she was able to create the illusion. (It wasn’t as stupid a question as it may seem given the incredibly frank and straightforward nature of our relationship — I really did feel that she would give me a straight answer to that question and would likewise realize that our relationship would not be doomed whatever her response). She explained that she rarely saw clients more than once, and those that she did, she did so because she felt some emotional connection with them (what some might call “click”), and that she continued to see them only so long as she felt this — but that, because of the ultimate boundary that existed, she felt completely safe during her time with them to be completely open emotionally. Stupidly, I asked her what that ultimate boundary was. She looked at me and said, “The money.”

At that point, a light bulb went off in my head. I realized that it WAS possible to have a real relationship in this world of ours. Our boundaries — for me, my family, for her, the money — allowed us in our time together to experience each other without any other artificial boundaries. I have sometimes thought of it as a dam and a lake. The dam — our boundaries — kept our emotions — the lake — in the proper place. When we were together, we could freely dive into and immerse ourselves in that lake of emotions. However, when our time together was up, those boundaries allowed us to walk away, leaving those emotions and feelings behind, where they belonged, to be enjoyed again the next time we were together.

I have felt this type of emotional connection with several providers over the years. I don’t know that I could call it love. But it was surely more than lust. When it happens, it is magical — for a while. The ladies eventually retire for one reason or another, or I eventually move on. It is rare and difficult to find. But, it is so worth the search.

But not much trace left :-)

Follow up concerning tysteel and AHC.

Not sure if this is something they always do when they ban people, or only occasionally . . . but all of his posts were removed from public view.  Perhaps entire threads if he started them?  There are still traces, where someone quoted one of his posts, but otherwise he’s vanished.

With rare exceptions, I never much liked the idea of totally deleting comments that were objectionable.  Leaving them there, with appropriate comments by the moderators, served as examples to let everyone know what type of comments were considered out-of-bounds.  It also let members judge for themselves whether the disciplinary action taken was appropriate.  Perhaps that latter is not a problem at AHC and everyone trusts the staff completely . . . but I think it’s still a good policy.

Well, just reinforces my earlier conclusion that AHC and I would be a bad match, and that I was right to cancel my accounts over there. 

Follow up to last item

Well, tysteel didn’t drift away . . . but he was banned for six months.  Predictable, I guess.

It does point out, though, that much of what AHC is really about is a particular point of view.  That is, and despite what they say, “negative drama” that they try to banish isn’t the same as uncivil discourse (see recent discussion on Nia’s blog).  Actually, tysteel’s comments in that thread and elsewhere were generally presented fairly calmly and peacefully.  From the perspective of this outside observer, some of the comments made to him were less polite and restrained than his.  Not to mention some comments by prominent AHC members that I’ve seen on ASPD.

Conflict

A thread over on AHC about “a day in the life of a companion” — interesting primarily because of tysteel’s posts (essentially saying “hey, you’ve got it made”) and the reaction to him.  You see more of the attitude he expressed on ASPD than on AHC; it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out, and how he reacts to an escort-dominated board.   From other of his comments on AHC, and his experience on ASPD before being banned there, and comments he’s made about other online communities he’s participated in . . . he’s quick to take offense at a perceived lack of respect, and perhaps a bit prone to self-pity (financial situation; difficulty meeting screening requirements).  So, something like this was fairly predictable, and in fact I don’t think this was the first time.

Not that it’s a big deal by itself, or that it will even lead him to drift away.  Overall, I think he’s pretty happy with AHC, and definitely prefers it to the alternatives.  But it’s another reminder that you can’t always get what you want from online communities like these.  Some of the more out-spoken members of AHC say, in effect, “I came here because they didn’t respect me over on XXXX.”  Completely understandable and I have no quarrel with that. 

But lack of respect (or perception of such) goes both ways.  All of us get upset when others don’t respect us, but don’t always realize when we offend others by (in their perception) not respecting them.  No matter how hard you try . . . and AHC does try . . . you can’t eliminate those conflicts entirely.   And there are more and more conflicts as the number of people in the community increase.  Sad but true.

For that matter, what AHC trys to limit is disrespect aimed toward other AHC members.  It seems perfectly acceptable, and fairly common, to express very strong negative feelings toward outsiders.  (Yeah, “he started it first!”  But we’re supposed to have moved beyond that once we left kindergarten, aren’t we?)  And expressed in general terms, rather than specific individuals.  Of course, this is perfectly normal as well.  The “Us vs. Them” mentality was never unique to the Cold War.

 

Blowjobs

An informative thread over on AHC.  One of the things it doesn’t discuss much . . . that I haven’t seen discussed much elsewhere . . . and that some escorts don’t seem to intuitively understand . . . is that it’s not just about pumping up and down.  Varying speed and using the hands appropriately at the same time both are good as well.  But it’s also nice to alternate with some approaches that do not involve the cock inside the mouth.  (In addition to teabagging or licking the perineum, that is.) 

There are a couple of techniques that I’ve enjoyed over the years, that don’t appear to have occured to most escorts, that I think of as “ice cream cone” and “harmonica.”  The first:  just holding his cock at the base and slowly licking up the underside of the shaft, in the same fashion (although for a longer distance?) we used to lick ice cream cones as kids.  The second: with the mouth parallel to the length of the shaft, open the mouth slightly, press with gentle pressure against the cock, and slowly slide the mouth from left to right and back; mouth open to the point that the lips are still touching and sliding along the cock.  Like a moist, open-mouth kiss.  Or playing an harmonica. 

When done slowly, sensuously . . . well, not only are the physical sensations great (and in some ways better than from merely putting it in your mouth and pumping up and down) but it also helps creates the impression that you’re enjoying the feel of it yourself.  It seems less “mechanical” than the straight-forward in-and-out.  Of course, the more traditional approach is great too, so it’s good to intermingle.

*shrug*  Personal preference; not sure whether other guys enjoy those as well.

Damn, now I’m wishing I was with someone, right now, whom I could help practice her technique!    Unfortunately . . . . 

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Edited to add:  Anytime we’re talking about blowjobs, I should probably reference — not so much a technical how-to manual as an awe-inspiring account — the post on “My Oral Fixation” from Caitie Mae’s blog.  She makes it sound completely irresistible.  I have a sneaking suspicion that 85% of the guys who read that were calling or emailing within a very short period of time.  I shouldn’t have re-read it; now I really wish I could hook up with someone today. 

Intimacy

In her comments to a recent — well, relatively recent — entry (more follow-up here), Gillette pointed out that escorts cannot share something this intimate with someone a number of times on a regular basis and not be affected.  In any event, as a result of that discussion as well as Compartments’ complaints about clients who demand too much (my reaction here), I’ve been thinking recently about “intimacy.”  There are some guys who deny the existence of intimacy in the P4P world.  Maybe there usually isn’t, for them — particularly if they’re among those who rarely see the same lady twice.

But I’m somewhat taken aback by guys who say they have a very close relationship with the escorts they see, because P4P often limits intimacy.  Sure, there is a high level of physical intimacy, but the very structure of what we do in many ways limits emotional intimacy.  Well, at least in the type of P4P I’m most familiar with (as opposed to the HighDollarHottie or Courtesan arrangements):

Pillow talk — changes over the years

A recent thread on ASPD about personal ID security.  OK, huge topic, more than I want to address right now, but I did find interesting references to security risks because of pillow talk.  That is, Escort sees Client A and during post-coital cuddling she talks about, among other things, Client B, whom she’s also seen or maybe just knows from meeting at a P4P party.  The point being, of course, that Escort may inadvertently reveal information that will allow Client A to figure out who Client B is in real life.

I wonder how many people stop to think that the content of pillow talk has changed significantly since, say, 5 or 10 years ago.  I don’t recall any escort discussing other clients (other than in an exceptionally general way) when I first started into this.  Why would she?  She would be talking about someone I almost certainly didn’t know and wasn’t interested in.  Back then, before the development of online P4P “communities” like ASPD, clients never knew each other.  We tend to talk and gossip about people both parties know, and back then there were very few of those.  Today — for those involved in the online P4P communities — we do know the same people.  Even if I haven’t met a particular client of Escort, I may know of him from reading his posts on ASPD, AHC, or the like.  So . . . it’s somewhat more likely that Escort may mention something about him to me.

Of course, the members of the communities rarely know each other by their real world identities.  I may know someone as Handle A, but almost never would know that his real name is Jim Smith and that he works for Big Company.  So Escort doesn’t tell me a funny story about Jim Smith (even though she knows his real name) . . . she tells me a funny story about Handle A.  And she doesn’t pass along information that would help me identify who he is in real life.  So it’s really not as indiscreet as it sounds. 

Neither is it as “non-confidential” as it sounds.  When an escort tells me something about another client, it usually is: (a) neutral or positive about the client; or (b) without even mentioning his handle on the discussion board, only identifying him as a generic, unnamed client.

Most escorts I saw didn’t talk much, if at all, about other clients . . . and if they did, didn’t even mention their handles . . . and if they did, it was almost always someone fairly well known in the community.  I’ll throw out as examples Roadking, Chipper, DallasDoc.  They’re among a few handles whom everyone on Dallas ASPD would recognize, so escorts may talk about them (and it’s always complimentary about those 3).  The members who don’t post a lot, and aren’t as well known, rarely are discussed, period.  But it’s not all that common that escorts mention even the well-known guys.

From the comments on that ASPD thread about security . . . well, maybe there are some escorts not as discreet as the ones whom I saw, and maybe too many details are revealed on occasion.  But I really don’t think it’s that serious a problem. 

I suspect most guys are concerned about pillow talk not because of security risk, but because they feel uncomfortable being the topic of discussion and worry about whether the comments (although not posing a security risk) might cast them in a negative light.  Let’s face it, many guys are pretty insecure.  Or, as someone put it once, “The only thing more sensitive than a man’s ego is an armed nuclear device.” 

(I’m not concerned about it, personally.  I’ll semi-retired and pretty low profile this days and I can’t imagine why an escort or client would think to mention me, even in passing, during pillow talk.)